We love watching TV! Globally, people spend around 2.5 hours every day watching various forms of TV programmes. That came with a carbon footprint of 9.2 tonnes for each hour of television produced, which is the equivalent of two households’ annual consumption. 

As the Global Production Sustainability Manager at Fremantle, Katy believes the TV industry can have a big impact by reducing its own greenhouse gas emissions and influencing the audience’s climate actions. In this podcast, she shares how she combined her experience and passion for creative production with knowledge in carbon management, as well as her insights of green jobs in the industry. 

Her message goes to all who want to pivot their career for the environment: be creative with your background and skills because everything has an impact!

Listen to the podcast or read the transcript below.

Greensider: Could you please tell us what your job involves as a Global Production Sustainability Manager?

Katy: Sure! Fremantle is a large global TV production company. We've got hubs around the world from Australia, Indonesia, Mexico, lots in the Nordics, lots in Central Europe, as well as a head office in the UK.

A sustainability manager's job in a corporation like this expands everything from data reporting, meeting legislation, working at carbon footprint, driving emissions down, setting targets. But the really interesting thing about my job in TV is that there's also another whole side to the coin - that's influencing our audiences around sustainability actions, climate literacy through our content. Therefore, I also work a lot with our script writers, producers and directors about trying to put climate change into all sorts of TV shows.

Greensider: Basically there are two sides to your job. One side is the production and the other one is the audience. When it comes to production, what kind of challenges or problems are you facing?

Katy: Working out the carbon footprint or the environmental impacts of a TV show is quite challenging and tricky because there's lots of data points. Also no two TV shows look the same, so we can't really rely on spent data or benchmarks.

We have to work with production managers, who are really busy, to work out their air miles, fuel use in things like generators on film sets, the amount of costumes or materials. So there's lots of different sorts of data points. Some countries are just better and more used to working out their carbon footprint than others.

I'd say the two main challenges are that no two productions look the same, so it's very hard to do estimates. Working with different countries with different challenges around data collection is also tricky.

Greensider: Are there any industry standards for you to work on?

Katy: Yes. There are a number of organisations springing up in different territories. In the UK, there's an organisation called Albert, hosted by BAFTA, the awards  body. I did work at Albert. It was my first job in this intersection between the creative industries and sustainability, prior to joining Fremantle.

They (BAFTA) have a certification standard, which requires a production to meet certain measures, such as no domestic flying in the UK in order to get a stamp for sustainable production. There are similar standards in Germany, America, Netherlands, France, and springing up elsewhere. Those bodies and standards have calculators attached. The tricky thing is, as always with data, auditing it and checking its validity, because we now have to provide this data increasingly for legislation. It’s not just about behaviour change anymore. It needs to be accurate and ready for external audit. But in any green job, data is pretty challenging.

Greensider: I think in any case, All these standards indicate a very good sign that within the TV and film industry, there is a growing awareness of sustainability practices.

Let's come back to the audience's side. What are the challenges that you're facing in this area? Is it about getting the audience interested in sustainability topics, or is it to strike a balance between creativity and being sustainable in a set?

Katy: That's such a good question. There's a perception, I think, among senior leaders in TV that climate change is a really preachy depressing topic. For a long time, commissioners didn't want to touch anything that might be quite explicit climate content. But the dust has shifted and more broadcasters are looking for climate change narratives. 

The brilliant thing is at the same time, there's a recognition that climate change content doesn't have to be a big apocalyptic film specifically about climate change. It could just be a character in a soap opera installing a heat pump, or just seeing some solar panels on the roof of the Love Island villa. Sometimes it’s just about normalising sustainability actions. 

In numerous surveys of audiences around the world, people are saying - we want TV to reflect the world. We don't want to hide this. We don't want to see loads of fast fashion anymore on TV. Actually, we care about the climate crisis. It's not always that we want something depressing, but we do want to see our world accurately reflected and be educated on what actions I can take. That knowledge is increasing amongst broadcasters. 

I think it's a creative challenge, which we need to shift into saying, no, this is a creative opportunity, because sometimes the most creative things do have limited budgets or hit certain diversity metrics. There are so many stories within sustainability that are ripe for drama, like floods and migration. So I do have to work a lot with people to see the opportunity rather than the challenge of it.

Greensider: This switching perspectives from challenges to opportunities can give people more motivation to to work. I think that applies to many so-called challenges in climate change.

Let's now talk about your career journey. which is very interesting. You were in the TV industry for 10 years and then you got out of the industry, but into some sustainability roles. Now you're back in the film industry again. What was your turning point? At what moment do you think that you wanted to work in sustainability?

Katy: Yeah. You've also shown my age!

Yes. I work in TV and years working up the ladder. I started an entry level job and worked up to being a producer, but towards the end of my TV career, I moved away from London and up to Glasgow where I opted for a work life balance.

I was a bit burnt out in London, so I took up a lot of hill walking and time in nature. In a cliche way, it was that inspired me to go back to university and study my Masters in Carbon Management. I thought Carbon Management seemed like a good choice because it was quite practical and hopeful it’d lead to a green job. I didn't really envisage going back in TV, but I knew it wasn't necessarily just analytical or data gathering. I knew I wanted to do something maybe more in the campaign behaviour change. 

I took on a graduate job after my Masters, which was quite tricky because I was in my mid thirties at that point or or early thirties. It was quite tricky going back to scratch, but I only did that for a year or so. It was with a consultancy, called Changeworks. It was a good grounding, but then I realised that my skills are better suited to working back in the creative industry. So I set up my own consultancy, and started doing sort of training for the TV industry and some other sort of consultancy work. Then I just found myself working with BAFTA and now Fremantle.

I remember when I started my Master's degree that at the time there were a lot of people who had done Geography and carbon related jobs. I guess I was a little bit of an outlier. There was one other lawyer, someone who'd been a lawyer for 10 years and myself in TV. I thought it was quite interesting. Maybe we could find jobs that intersect these two backgrounds. Now there are loads of climate green jobs in law, and my contemporary is now doing exactly that, combining the two careers. Likewise, myself working in this intersection between the creative industry and carbon.

Greensider: That was one of my reasons to join the same course as you did, in Carbon Management because I wanted to change my career. Before I was a translator, and now at least I'm a podcaster hosting green career interviews. 

From your own experience, what has changed in the TV industry in terms of sustainability. And are there more green jobs within the industry? 

Katy: The TV industry itself has grown in the UK in particular, and the budgets have increased around the world. At the moment, it's going through a funny period, but I think it's a blip.

One of the main things, although a very small part, of the carbon footprint of the industry is consumption and waste. It used to have a wasteful mindset because everyone was so busy. We'd build these big sets and then just put them in skips at the end of it. Also, there'd be so many plastic water bottles on set because everyone would just take a sip, put it down somewhere, and then not know where they put it down and just go get another one. Again, it’s not a big part of the carbon footprint because travel and energy are the big parts of a production footprint. But it was that mindset of not being awake to anything.

I've seen huge shifts actually since I rejoined the industry. Now, crews just automatically bring reusable cups on set. Most sets and costumes are reused and repurposed in hubs like scenery storage. We've still got a travel problem. In many places, there’s a problem with generator technology, not being adequate in many countries. But there's an awakening to sustainability and sustainable productions.

And there are more green jobs. It’s not just pockets of organisations like Albert anymore. Most large production companies and broadcasters have sustainability teams, as well as consultants who go and work with the films and on location themselves. Also, those jobs have actually increased in calibre. They us ed to be quite junior roles and now actually they're quite senior. They're like COVID managers, supervisors. They're telling film stars that they can't fly on private jets. They have a bit of authority, not just sorting out recycling anymore. I'm seeing more and more green jobs within the TV industry for sure. Besides, carbon accounting isn't going anywhere.

Also I've just been interviewing for a data analyst to come along and work with me, because we've got legislative requirements to get our carbon and environmental data more accurate. So, there's a need to work in that field as well.

Greensider: For these green roles within the TV and film industry, do they require people with a creative background?

Katy: I've just been interviewing for a data analyst over the last few days. I didn't need them to have TV experience at all. It's much more important to me that they were passionate about data, could use it to make arguments, were analytical, and maybe had a little bit of experience or or some knowledge from study about environmental data management.

But if I was to employ someone who was going to be on set or talking a lot to productions or maybe doing some training, it would probably be helpful if that person did come from a TV production background or at least had some understanding of it, because there's a certain language to use. It gives that person certain authority when talking to producers to make sure they would understand. So it depends on the job.

Greensider: I think it makes perfect sense. Are film schools training students with sustainability knowledge?

Katy: I can only talk for the UK. But I've noticed that certainly universities that have TV production degrees and there are probably around 50 to 100 of those courses in the UK alone - the majority of them now have at least a module in doing sustainable production. Maybe not so much on their creative audience side of things, but there are quite a lot of universities signing up to do, for example, BAFTA Albert’s sustainable production education partnership module, which is great. It just shows a bit like risk assessment or diversity and inclusion. These things are just part and parcel of TV production now. And sustainability is one of those core requirements.

Greensider: That's nice to see that there are options out there. Do you think choosing a green role in TV production requires you to make any compromise in terms of living standard? For example, do you need to take a lower salary or do you need to work for longer hours?

Katy: Actually, it has been one of the benefits to me combining both careers. Especially having graduated from my masters, it meant that I didn't necessarily need to stay in a junior level for long because I had a bank of experience, so that gave me a leg up salary wise.

The TV industry's salaries are quite good. However, that's often because people in TV work crazy hours. I've said to myself that’s not something I'm willing to do anymore. I did it in my twenties, but I'm not willing to work all the hours under all the travel. I guess I'm reaping the rewards of an industry that pays  well whilst having a job, which actually means that I have an argument not to travel too much, so I do have a good work life balance and a decent salary.

That said, I think possibly an environmental job within a TV company does command less money because it's seen as a job for passionate people who may be willing to take a salary sacrifice. Compared to the salary of, say, an environmental data analyst or a financial data analyst or an HR analyst, it might be a little bit lower because there's a perception that it's a dream job working in the environment and TV. I'm obviously fighting the corner for that to be different.

Greensider: But is there a fun part to this compromise?

Katy: Of course! It's a great job. It's creative and impactful. I pinch myself every day that I'm working both sustainability and TV, two things that I'm very passionate about and know quite a lot about. So I feel very fortunate. And as I say, I can argue on sustainability grounds to not have to travel too much. For me, that's a perk. I'm sure some people love the travel. I'm taking the Eurostar to Amsterdam next month. That's probably about all the travel I'm going to do for the next few months.

Greensider: I love travelling in Eurostar. It's really enjoyable. I love trains. So looking forward, what's your expectation of green jobs in your industry?

Katy: I actually expect to grow my team in the next few years. At the moment, it's myself and a new data analyst who I'm currently hiring for, but I fully expect to work a lot with different sustainability people based in different territories over the coming years.

I don't think the industry is going away. I see more and more broadcasters around the world growing their own sustainability team. So I'm not worried about the future and having gainful employment in this particular intersection. In terms of progression, I don't know. I think that maybe I could command a higher salary in a different industry completely outside of TV, but I'm not solely driven by salary. Impact matters to me and I do feel like this is one of the most impactful industries.

It's not got the highest carbon footprint, compared to cement production, but it's got a big brain print through its audience engagement.

Greensider: Before we wrap up, do you have any final advice for people who want to pursue a green role in the television industry or any final thoughts?

Katy: I think in the TV industry specifically, getting some experience at a more grassroots organisation would be super helpful before knocking on the doors of the large broadcasters and production companies, because sometimes working in a smaller organisation, you get more experience. Like BAFTA Albert, there are plenty of other campaign organisations across advertising TV and film all around the world, might be one avenue.

In general, it is resilience. I think it's really important that in order to not burn out, is to keep yourself resilient in whatever means. I've had a number of colleagues who become really angry or depressed about the situation because you're dealing with climate change on a daily basis. For me, it's about finding people who are optimistic to work with, who are solutions drivers. But I know other people switch off in completely different ways.

Greensider: Absolutely! I believe what you said today and your career story is inspiring within the TV industry and beyond.

Katy: I've been quite specific today about TV, but not everyone is as passionate about it as me or has experience. My main point is that if you've had a few years experience in a different industry and you decide you've got to do something about the environment or you decide to go into a postgraduate course or for whatever reason, I'd urge people to not think in a silo about specific bang on sustainability jobs, because almost anything can be a sustainability job now. Sustainability and the climate crisis need people with all sorts of different experiences and backgrounds, for example, doctors or lawyers. Those people with additional climate knowledge would be really helpful in this endeavour to a more sustainable future.